So like everyone I imagine, I want to grow, develop, and get better. I have done most of my learning alone, listening to music, studying lessons, practice, etc... But I know I need to play with others to fully develop to the point I can play for others and share my playing. I have had lot of trouble with this. I have been to a bunch of jams and really can't play at that level-come up with something on the fly to fit in with an unfamiliar song. The one time I did play at a jam, I couldn't hear myself. It was also VERY loud, and it wasn't a scene that I would want to frequent and invest a significant amount of time attending. I have played with others here and there, but have been unable to find a steady partner/group of others. Currently I am playing with someone who is much better than I am, and am moving in some new and good directions.
My question however, is what recommendations do Sonic Junction members have for meeting and playing with others?
Hi Daniel --- great question / discussion. It was work for me.
I met a group of musicians through work many years ago and we had a jam once a month where we played a couple familiar tunes, some new ones and a couple of our own compositions. It was a great experience as we all brought something a little different to the table and it was mostly about practicing, playing and creating together. Our end goal for the night was a recording of a couple songs (mostly live --- maybe one with over-dubs).
I think it worked because it was about creating --- and we enjoyed creating with each other.
Looking forward to other peoples thoughts (both what worked and what didn't).
Hi Daniel
I have found a lot of open stage venues can be dominated by loud players - but do some research. I found that not all open stages are the same. Most open stage venues have a house band with some creditibity. Note the players that are loud and who is not - ask to only go on stage with those you are comfortable with - perhaps just the house band. I understand that this may not be a luxury. In my area guests are generally limited to 3 songs unless they are amazing. This helps maintain order, gives the amateurs a chance and limits the crazies. After all there are paying customers in the house. Don't be afraid to ask players to lower there volume. The hand signal is to lower a flat hand close to the stage floor - Git down. Hopefully there are a number of open stage venues in your area to chose from. Keep at it. Look in the classifieds for others looking to get together. I stick to my own age group which helps but is no guaranty.
I have had a lot of mixed results in this regard. Yes, there are what are called "jams", and these can be playing with a house band or being put together with other players to do some songs. I have had great and terrible experiences in both instances. Let's say, though, the results were so inconsistent that it has not been worth doing regularly. House bands are mainly promoting themselves, and if what you are doing fits into what they want to do it can be good, if it doesn't it can be terrible. It's a hit and miss situation. If you're lucky, and find a group of musicians who are good and really like what you do, it can be a lot of fun and gratifying. Few acoustic opportunities though. There are some local blues societies, all of which have monthly jams, that can be okay too. But usually people tend to play with others they already know or are in a band with. Personally, I think you need to do what Mike is referring to, which is to put feelers out on Craig's list or something to locate similar minded people who are willing to get together. I think it should be open to solo playing, playing together, jamming, whatever the group wants to do. Most of the time in these "jams" people are just playing with the same people, doing the same songs, to promote themselves; it's not really that interesting. I do value the experience of playing with other people. But for traditional blues, as opposed to blues rock, I have not found many musicians who know what they re doing anyway, especially rythm wise. I have never found a drummer at one of these events who knew what a triplet was, or a brush, and usually they take over the song because they have no idea how to do anything moderate to down tempo. You also have to contend with "jam masters" who try and plug you into a formula four piece band format. I have found that the range of music at these things is very limited. Personally, I like to work on things; I'm not that big on jamming. If I think there are some compatible people though I might do it. But I think creating your own social musical group is the most productive approach. I finds jams very cliquey, not always cordial, and not often about the music. However, I have met other compatible musicians more often at open mics, one at a time. You see somebody and you say, "yeah, we're on the same page here, we can play together and at least have some fun." Jams are typically in bars (although not so often if they are sponsored by a blues society), so it is basically loud bar music and more blues rock than blues. If you are here on Sonic Junction, you are a serious student of the form, and you will find that there is a lot of what I call "riffs and ignorance" out there. If you are basically a "plug and play" instrumentalist interested in just doing a few solos it can be fun. But I strongly advise going just to watch first and get the lay of the land, because it is not always worth the time. Oddly enough these blues foundation societies aren't much better, if at all better. So I definitely recommend cultivating your own social-musical group. Then, you can go to a bar and get a night where you can jam and YOU get the bar tab instead of the host band.
Wow guys, thank you so much. A lot to think about and some good ideas to move me forward. I'm always amazed at how much I can learn on the internet from people I don't even know!
I guess the ultimate expression of this idea is to just start your own band, no matter what level you are at. Find people to play with that have the same committment and just keep playing together. Not so easy though.
Yes Daniel, That can be very counterproductive being in a loud situation with people who don't listen to each other. Like Mike said, finding a small group of people, even just one other person with similar interests is the best way to start playing with others. Blues jams can be fun, but can also be a nightmare and often don't work to everyone's advantage. Learning how to listen and respond is probably the most imporant element to the live musical experience. A live performance should be like a living organism witth everyone listening and reacting to each other. Shifting and changing with whoever is leading at that particular moment. When that happens its about the best high I know! Sadly many players will never experience that because they are busy trying to show off what thay just learned. and playing it LOUD! Duke
Hi Duke --- I love the metaphor of a living organism, shifting and changing.
When the "living organism' happens, it is a beautiful thing. Well put Duke.
The blues jams here in London are truely awful! Or, to be less intolerant, they should just be re-labelled as something else, because they're really all playing hard/loud/widdly rock. I would love to meet any Londoners who are doing Dukes lessons to get together and jam. I'm part of a great 7 piece band (vocals, guitar, bass, drums, keys, tenor sax and trumpet) so I do get to experience the 'living organism' but I think it'd really push my playing to be trying this stuff with another guitar player. Plus I love it when two guitars work together - I've never had the experience personally but i love it when I hear it on records.
Hey Charlie, best of luck with that. BTW, I will be appearing at the Great British Rhythm and Blues Festival at the end of August. Hope to see you there. Duke
Thanks Mike and Steve, In blues and jazz the music used to be about listening and following and making accents and at apropriate times. When that happens, it's the best feeling in the world. It's what i want to promote and make people aware of. As a rhythm section player it means holding back and really listening. But also for guitarists it means the same thing if you are playing obligato to a vocalist or building a solo that really fits in the song. it's all about listening. In regards to learning and playing with other people. It would be great if we could start getting some of the students playing duos on videos. Then we can see the interaction developing.Duke
I concur completely Duke. I have had a few great experiences, and I always manage to pull off a performance that the audience likes, but, as I said, I have had to resort to "scouting" these events first to make sure there is some compatibility there. I find that what people think of as "blues" is very uninspired in general these days. It's mostly blues rock, very repetitious, and plagued by incompetent jam masters (as them call them). I think the idea of students connecting is a good idea. One thing, anyone involved in this venture at Sonic Junction is on the same page in terms of what the music values are. While one would not want to infringe on anyone's privacy, it would be cool to be able to see an index of subscribers with perhaps their city, state and country and a way to connect via the website. Although I think we are probably pretty spread out, I think it would at least offer an opportunity for us to familiarize ourselves with the blues scene in different areas and possibly connect up for some creative venture.
I'm willing to put it out there that I live in Los Angeles and would be happy to get together and jam with like-minded folks.
When I first moved to LA in 2000, I used to go to the blues jams here (playing keys, my first instrument) to meet musicians and pick up gigs. The scene at Harvelle's in Santa Monica used to be pretty cool, as was the more down-home Babe's And Ricky's in Liemert Park, but I understand Babe's and Ricky's is gone, and I don't think Harvelle's has the Monday night jams anymore.
So after studying lead guitar for less than a year (7 months with Duke), I have yet to try playing it in front of an audience! And even though I've played keys on thousands of gigs doing jazz, blues, rock, etc., I'm still pretty nervous that my fingers will fail me on the guitar. So a jam would be a great way to push myself while keeping a safety net.
Mike: if you decide to have an "opt-in" page where people can put their location and contact email, count me in!
Bruce
anyone in the dallas areathat would be interested in meeting somewhere and playing together?
There are lots of great blues players in the Dallas area Jerry. Shouldnt be hard to find them.....Duke
There are usually more than one blues jam in a city,sometimes many. i may payoff to investigate the different ones in your area. Not every jam is the same and once you get to know some of the people you may suggest that they try playing softer so you can all try and respond to each other better. Those kind of comments can get a hot or cold reaction but may be worth trying.Just a thought, Duke
I would also suggest local blues societies, because over time you can get to know and hook up with people you can benefit by playing with. Many of these have long jams on weekends and people tend to play with the same friends. It's a good way to network with similar minded folks in your area. Other jams are inconsistent because they are usually in a bar and are required to be good for business; as well as promoting usually the presenter and a small number of their friends. But for a long term relationship and access the blues socieites are a good thing to check out.
Hey Jerry, I live in the Dallas area and know of at least 3 good ongoing blues jams that I attend pretty regularly. Let me know if I can help.
