First of all, I have to agree with Enslah, that is a beautiful sounding guitar and you're really making it sing on this tune. I particularly liked how lyrical you were with the slides around 0:06. You are correct in noticing that the rhythm is a bit off. I suggest making your own rhythm guitar track and then try playing the solo along to that (I just used Garageband on my iPad). This will help keep you honest with the phrasing and it'll also allow you to focus on just playing good solid rhythm for a bit, which is something that will benefit anyone.
Posting a new video on this one, with Norman Blake-version between verses. I could see on my other version that Tony rice-picking after strumming is for now too difficult. I have some of the same problems if I have to change between flatpcking and strumming (my right hand struggles with the transition). Is that a common problem for beginners by the way?
Hello Torgeir! I'm so pleased to see this - your guitar playing is really getting better and better all the time! The thing I think you should pay the most attention to is actually making sure that you're singing is in the groove rhythmically. You're developing a nice flow with your guitar playing but what pulls me out more often is the timing of the singing. I know that English isn't your first language so this might be tricky, but think more about the actual rhythm and groove of the words coming out of your mouth and make sure that they are working together with your guitar playing to create a groove and pocket.
Regarding the guitar playing, you've made so much progress. Your Tony Rice-style intro here sounds good. You might try paying a bit of extra attention to the dynamics. Allow the phrases to get soft and loud to create a touch more drama. All in all though I thing you're sounding great. Bravo!
Hello Chris! Here is my solo version of butter and eggs. This is such a beautiful guitar song, thanks to both you and Julian Lage.
This has been a enjoyable lesson, although i got confused with the different scales you used. D-pentatonic and b-minor for the most? This is still way over my theory level. Anyway, it has got me started trying to learn pentatonic scales on different parts of the fretboard (also inspirered by the Old Grimes lesson).
I did some small mistakes the last ten seconds, the end part is really difficult with a 12-fret gitar!
Thanks Torgeir! I saw this this week, so I feel that I am at least in a good camp. Someone like Grier uses both ways, but it is definitely something to work hard at, if you want to be able to move easily between both approaches.
Thanks for the reply on mississipi valley, I wasn't really aware that I always used the third when playing alternate bass!
I have practized this picking style for about three weeks now, and it's cool, but so hard to control. I listened to the church street blues album also, full of so many good tunes! Any advices om my video is much appreciated.
Mississippi valley! Such a cool song, and I really like yours and Julian Lage's version of it. Really challenging to sing these fast lyrics in english. Thanks, really enjoyed all the lessons. Any chance for more lessons about harmonies?
Torgeir, nice work! And just to make you feel better, this song is hard to sing even if English is your native language - there are a lot of words and not many chances to breathe!
A few things to focus in on:
1) When you play the full melody twice in a row (as in the intro and outro), on the second time when the melody speeds up and becomes slightly chromatic, you are adding a couple of beats. I noticed this at 0:20 and also at 1:29. You might want to check back in with that part of the music.
2) In the interest of getting the groove to be a little more compelling, try just playing the melody without the harmony parts. At it‘s essence, Living in the Mississippi Valley is a fiddle tune and we want to make sure that the listener is feeling that when the instrumental parts are happening. Just focus on flow and groove, the way you would with any other fiddle tune. Once you’ve got that down entirely start adding the extra harmony voices on the guitar. Also, you did a good job with playing the instrumentals, but
3) Your rhythm guitar sounds good. When you are fingering a G chord though you might want to bounce off of the root and 5th (6th and 4th strings) rather than the root and 3rd (6th and 5th strings). Playing the 3rd as an occasional accent is fine but generally you’ll want to be playing 1 and 5, like a bass player would.
beautiful song! Here is my attempt. I've noticed that singing with emotion can be quite difficult for 3+ minutes, as thoughts sometimes fly away (for example 'did I play that good enough?'). And also that keeping the tempo down is super important, this is a really slow song! All lessons with singing and chord theory was really interesting, thanks.
Hi Torgeir, nice job! There was a vibe right from the start in your guitar playing - it had a sense of breath and dynamics and vulnerability that was very captivating. I think you’re on the right track here. The more clear your mind can be and the more you can submerge yourself in the story of the song, the more you might be able to “forget” about how you’re playing the guitar. I know this is easier said than done! For now, I wouldn’t worry too much about maintaining the tempo because you have a good natural sense of time and musicianship. The tempo will take care of itself. Just try to stay in that clear and present place that you were in at the top of the song and deliver the lyrics like you are telling them to a person.
I appriciate your video response, and I can see what you're pointing at. I've practized a lot on this, but kinda feel I have stagnated on developing my playing on Rygar (maybe it was a bit too difficult for me now). It's a shame because it really is one of the top lessons on this site, but I think I have to let it go for a while. Hopefully I can post a video before 2019 and show that I have learned from your response. Thanks!
Sounds good. And as a general note - if you feel like you need to take a break from it for awhile that’s fine. Sometimes a little time away from something you’ve been banging your head against can give your subconscious a chance to work through the issues. You might be surprised to see that the next time you work on this that it comes more easily. I had that experience MANY times in the early days of Punch Brothers. There were some rhythmic concepts that were very tricky and new to me and it felt like no matter how much I worked on them and thought about them, I just couldn’t get them right. But a few months went by and all of a sudden I could do it. Sometimes the pressure we put on ourselves to get something right can get in the way.
This is actually a version I learned from Molly Tuttle on youtube, but I thought I would put it up here anyway if you have any comments on it. By the way, is it just me or does the down Down UP-teqhnique feels harder to do fast then alternate picking? But I feel more in control with d-d-u, so it's hard to choose which one to practice mostly.
Beautiful song! Are there any more songs in bluegrass fingerpicking you can reccomend, or is not that common with fingerpicking in bluegrass guitar tradition?
Really beautiful playing here! You have a very lyrical sense of how to play the guitar and it's lovely. There isn't a ton of "fingerpicking" of this beautiful variety. The closest thing would by Tony Rice's playing on his last solo album, Unit of Measure. He has a lovely arrangement of Shennendoah and some other tunes. Here's a beautiful live performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xswwXOPhoTU
Doc Watson did some incredible virtuosic fingerpicking, but it was coming more out of a southern blues and country guitar tradition. Deep River Blues is the most famous example but there are many others!
Deep River Blues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAbrnjdtYw
Sitting On Top of the World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1q4Eb34mwM
Here is my short version of Rygar (it's short because I can't do those awesome variations with bass). I hope to hear a comment from you on this one, it's a really a beautiful guitar song I would like to improve my playing on. Torgeir
Thanks for giving lesson on this song, I love the recording you did with Julian Lage. Again I'm still working with speed and tension (I guess I will always have to). On an earlier lesson (whiskey b.) you adviced me to have less swing feel, how do you think that seems now when I'm playing this tune?
Hi Torgeir, yes, this swing feels better to me! We will all always be working with tension and mindfulness, so it’s good that you’re making friends with it.
Re the swing, have you ever heard Tony Rice’s version of Blackberry Blossom? If not, you should check it out. It’s really played quite straight, but it’s INCREDIBLE. Superhuman guitar playing. There’s a great record of Tony Rice’s called 58957 - The Bluegrass Guitar Collection. If you’re not familiar with it, it may be interesting to you because Tony has a very straight, driving sense of rhythm. There actually is a sense of swing in it, but it’s subtle and different than what we usually think of when we say “swing.”
I had to skip a few lessons, because butter and eggs is just to beautiful not to try! Challenging with some stretchy chords, I'll keep practizing and maybe advance to the solo. Any advices?
Hi Torgeir, nicely done! You've done a good job of making the bass line and the melody both speak. It already sounds nice and it will continue to get better the more you practice. I would suggest not taking as much time in your pauses. At 0:13 if I'm tapping my foot along, the beat gets extended quite a bit and it throws me off of the pulse. One way to keep the pulse through a long pause like that is to continue the beat in your body. I will often keep my hand in motion (and in time) through a pause/rest almost as if it were a pendulum in a clock. I won't strike the strings but I will keep my hand in motion as if I were playing through the rest.
Sometimes musicians will stretch time deliberately to underline a musical point, but for that to work there needs to be a reason and also you need to guide the listener along as you're stretching the time.
Torgeir, beautiful playing. Truly. You’re doing the triplets a bit differently than I did, but what you did is better. I wish I had phrased them that way. Really nice. The one issue I hear is that occasionally you are jumping ahead on the beat. This happens at 0:33 and again at 0:47. Make sure you can keep the beat straight in those sections where the melody syncopates and you’ll be in good shape.
Also, the timing between the solo and rhythm playing is very consistent. 👍
Hi Chris. Nice lesson, this is also quite a challenge! Rest strokes feels difficult to play in time, messes up the flow a bit. But it's fun to add something extra to the rythm, I'll keep working on that. Any advices on solo or rythm playing?
Hi Torgeir! You’ve got the essence of playing the melody, which sounds great. One thing to mention about that: the syncopations that you’re playing are a little quicker than the ones that I did (and that stole from Tony Rice!). To be specific I’m talking about the spots from 0:09-0:11 and 0:21-0:23. Those first 3 notes are usually on the beat. Think 8th notes there.
The other comment I have is that when you start playing rhythm and singing the tempo speeds up considerably. It is really tough to keep a consistent tempo between single notes and rhythm! Somehow they feel really different. To improve this I‘d suggest using a metronome. It will keep you honest and help teach you what feels correct as you switch from rhythm to lead and vice versa.
Thanks for a very good lesson! I've find crosspicking really difficult to master, so any advice/comment to this video is much appreciated. Torgeir, Norway
Hi Torgeir! Sounding good! One thing that immediately jumps out to me is that you are playing with a lot of swing, almost to the point where 2 16th notes resemble playing the 1st and 3rd notes of a triplet. That will rob you of time between your upstrokes and downstrokes. SO, you might try playing it again with your rhythm totally straightened out, and see what that feels like. My guess is that it will be easier. Also, the amount of “swing feel” in one’s playing is to taste, but I would try straightening your feel out a bit. Give it a shot and let me know what you think.
That's really cool!
Thank you, Enslah! Yes, it is a Strand. 00-12, beautiful guitar and joyful to play!
Seeing this again, I realize that I got the rythm on the solo part wrong. I'll work on that!
Hi Torgeir,
First of all, I have to agree with Enslah, that is a beautiful sounding guitar and you're really making it sing on this tune. I particularly liked how lyrical you were with the slides around 0:06. You are correct in noticing that the rhythm is a bit off. I suggest making your own rhythm guitar track and then try playing the solo along to that (I just used Garageband on my iPad). This will help keep you honest with the phrasing and it'll also allow you to focus on just playing good solid rhythm for a bit, which is something that will benefit anyone.
Cheers,
Chris
Posting a new video on this one, with Norman Blake-version between verses. I could see on my other version that Tony rice-picking after strumming is for now too difficult. I have some of the same problems if I have to change between flatpcking and strumming (my right hand struggles with the transition). Is that a common problem for beginners by the way?
Cheers!
Hello Torgeir! I'm so pleased to see this - your guitar playing is really getting better and better all the time! The thing I think you should pay the most attention to is actually making sure that you're singing is in the groove rhythmically. You're developing a nice flow with your guitar playing but what pulls me out more often is the timing of the singing. I know that English isn't your first language so this might be tricky, but think more about the actual rhythm and groove of the words coming out of your mouth and make sure that they are working together with your guitar playing to create a groove and pocket.
Regarding the guitar playing, you've made so much progress. Your Tony Rice-style intro here sounds good. You might try paying a bit of extra attention to the dynamics. Allow the phrases to get soft and loud to create a touch more drama. All in all though I thing you're sounding great. Bravo!
Hello Chris! Here is my solo version of butter and eggs. This is such a beautiful guitar song, thanks to both you and Julian Lage.
This has been a enjoyable lesson, although i got confused with the different scales you used. D-pentatonic and b-minor for the most? This is still way over my theory level. Anyway, it has got me started trying to learn pentatonic scales on different parts of the fretboard (also inspirered by the Old Grimes lesson).
I did some small mistakes the last ten seconds, the end part is really difficult with a 12-fret gitar!
Cheers!
Strand guitar? It sounds beautiful!
Great discussion, welcome! You have maybe seen this one, but for others here is Chris Tile talking about his teqhnique:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IdhVC0DzfFY&t=15s
I remember Chris E. saying he has been influenced by Tile's right hand teqhnique.
Thanks Torgeir! I saw this this week, so I feel that I am at least in a good camp. Someone like Grier uses both ways, but it is definitely something to work hard at, if you want to be able to move easily between both approaches.
Thanks for the reply on mississipi valley, I wasn't really aware that I always used the third when playing alternate bass!
I have practized this picking style for about three weeks now, and it's cool, but so hard to control. I listened to the church street blues album also, full of so many good tunes! Any advices om my video is much appreciated.
Torgeir
Mississippi valley! Such a cool song, and I really like yours and Julian Lage's version of it. Really challenging to sing these fast lyrics in english. Thanks, really enjoyed all the lessons. Any chance for more lessons about harmonies?
Torgeir, nice work! And just to make you feel better, this song is hard to sing even if English is your native language - there are a lot of words and not many chances to breathe!
A few things to focus in on:
1) When you play the full melody twice in a row (as in the intro and outro), on the second time when the melody speeds up and becomes slightly chromatic, you are adding a couple of beats. I noticed this at 0:20 and also at 1:29. You might want to check back in with that part of the music.
2) In the interest of getting the groove to be a little more compelling, try just playing the melody without the harmony parts. At it‘s essence, Living in the Mississippi Valley is a fiddle tune and we want to make sure that the listener is feeling that when the instrumental parts are happening. Just focus on flow and groove, the way you would with any other fiddle tune. Once you’ve got that down entirely start adding the extra harmony voices on the guitar. Also, you did a good job with playing the instrumentals, but
3) Your rhythm guitar sounds good. When you are fingering a G chord though you might want to bounce off of the root and 5th (6th and 4th strings) rather than the root and 3rd (6th and 5th strings). Playing the 3rd as an occasional accent is fine but generally you’ll want to be playing 1 and 5, like a bass player would.
Torgeir
Hi Torgeir, nice job! There was a vibe right from the start in your guitar playing - it had a sense of breath and dynamics and vulnerability that was very captivating. I think you’re on the right track here. The more clear your mind can be and the more you can submerge yourself in the story of the song, the more you might be able to “forget” about how you’re playing the guitar. I know this is easier said than done! For now, I wouldn’t worry too much about maintaining the tempo because you have a good natural sense of time and musicianship. The tempo will take care of itself. Just try to stay in that clear and present place that you were in at the top of the song and deliver the lyrics like you are telling them to a person.
Hey Chris.
I appriciate your video response, and I can see what you're pointing at. I've practized a lot on this, but kinda feel I have stagnated on developing my playing on Rygar (maybe it was a bit too difficult for me now). It's a shame because it really is one of the top lessons on this site, but I think I have to let it go for a while. Hopefully I can post a video before 2019 and show that I have learned from your response. Thanks!
Sounds good. And as a general note - if you feel like you need to take a break from it for awhile that’s fine. Sometimes a little time away from something you’ve been banging your head against can give your subconscious a chance to work through the issues. You might be surprised to see that the next time you work on this that it comes more easily. I had that experience MANY times in the early days of Punch Brothers. There were some rhythmic concepts that were very tricky and new to me and it felt like no matter how much I worked on them and thought about them, I just couldn’t get them right. But a few months went by and all of a sudden I could do it. Sometimes the pressure we put on ourselves to get something right can get in the way.
This is actually a version I learned from Molly Tuttle on youtube, but I thought I would put it up here anyway if you have any comments on it. By the way, is it just me or does the down Down UP-teqhnique feels harder to do fast then alternate picking? But I feel more in control with d-d-u, so it's hard to choose which one to practice mostly.
Cheers
Torgeir
Beautiful song! Are there any more songs in bluegrass fingerpicking you can reccomend, or is not that common with fingerpicking in bluegrass guitar tradition?
Really beautiful playing here! You have a very lyrical sense of how to play the guitar and it's lovely. There isn't a ton of "fingerpicking" of this beautiful variety. The closest thing would by Tony Rice's playing on his last solo album, Unit of Measure. He has a lovely arrangement of Shennendoah and some other tunes. Here's a beautiful live performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xswwXOPhoTU
Doc Watson did some incredible virtuosic fingerpicking, but it was coming more out of a southern blues and country guitar tradition. Deep River Blues is the most famous example but there are many others!
Deep River Blues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAbrnjdtYw
Sitting On Top of the World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1q4Eb34mwM
Here is my short version of Rygar (it's short because I can't do those awesome variations with bass). I hope to hear a comment from you on this one, it's a really a beautiful guitar song I would like to improve my playing on. Torgeir
cool
Hi Torgeir,
I made a video response below.
Cheers!
Chris
Hi Torgeir, yes, this swing feels better to me! We will all always be working with tension and mindfulness, so it’s good that you’re making friends with it.
Re the swing, have you ever heard Tony Rice’s version of Blackberry Blossom? If not, you should check it out. It’s really played quite straight, but it’s INCREDIBLE. Superhuman guitar playing. There’s a great record of Tony Rice’s called 58957 - The Bluegrass Guitar Collection. If you’re not familiar with it, it may be interesting to you because Tony has a very straight, driving sense of rhythm. There actually is a sense of swing in it, but it’s subtle and different than what we usually think of when we say “swing.”
I had to skip a few lessons, because butter and eggs is just to beautiful not to try! Challenging with some stretchy chords, I'll keep practizing and maybe advance to the solo. Any advices?
Hi Torgeir, nicely done! You've done a good job of making the bass line and the melody both speak. It already sounds nice and it will continue to get better the more you practice. I would suggest not taking as much time in your pauses. At 0:13 if I'm tapping my foot along, the beat gets extended quite a bit and it throws me off of the pulse. One way to keep the pulse through a long pause like that is to continue the beat in your body. I will often keep my hand in motion (and in time) through a pause/rest almost as if it were a pendulum in a clock. I won't strike the strings but I will keep my hand in motion as if I were playing through the rest.
Sometimes musicians will stretch time deliberately to underline a musical point, but for that to work there needs to be a reason and also you need to guide the listener along as you're stretching the time.
Such a nice song! Pleasing to play and sing. Struggling a bit with timing and triplets, but working on it. Any more advices? Torgeir
Torgeir, beautiful playing. Truly. You’re doing the triplets a bit differently than I did, but what you did is better. I wish I had phrased them that way. Really nice. The one issue I hear is that occasionally you are jumping ahead on the beat. This happens at 0:33 and again at 0:47. Make sure you can keep the beat straight in those sections where the melody syncopates and you’ll be in good shape.
Also, the timing between the solo and rhythm playing is very consistent. 👍
Hi Chris. Nice lesson, this is also quite a challenge! Rest strokes feels difficult to play in time, messes up the flow a bit. But it's fun to add something extra to the rythm, I'll keep working on that. Any advices on solo or rythm playing?
Hi Torgeir! You’ve got the essence of playing the melody, which sounds great. One thing to mention about that: the syncopations that you’re playing are a little quicker than the ones that I did (and that stole from Tony Rice!). To be specific I’m talking about the spots from 0:09-0:11 and 0:21-0:23. Those first 3 notes are usually on the beat. Think 8th notes there.
The other comment I have is that when you start playing rhythm and singing the tempo speeds up considerably. It is really tough to keep a consistent tempo between single notes and rhythm! Somehow they feel really different. To improve this I‘d suggest using a metronome. It will keep you honest and help teach you what feels correct as you switch from rhythm to lead and vice versa.
Cheers!
Chris
Thanks for a very good lesson! I've find crosspicking really difficult to master, so any advice/comment to this video is much appreciated. Torgeir, Norway
Hi Torgeir! Sounding good! One thing that immediately jumps out to me is that you are playing with a lot of swing, almost to the point where 2 16th notes resemble playing the 1st and 3rd notes of a triplet. That will rob you of time between your upstrokes and downstrokes. SO, you might try playing it again with your rhythm totally straightened out, and see what that feels like. My guess is that it will be easier. Also, the amount of “swing feel” in one’s playing is to taste, but I would try straightening your feel out a bit. Give it a shot and let me know what you think.
Cheers!
Chris